Encouraginng each other to be assertive is something that is very important to me!
Relying on others can be very frustrating. People using their own initiative can often achieve far more. Self belief is important!
We llive in a town where this already happens so much . It will be natural for us as to do this more and more..
Do we approve of the actions of our police and those of the students.
At least with Youtube we have access to footage that allows us to make our own minds up.
12 comments:
Attila
said...
What a let-down, I was quite looking forward to seeing the boys in blue using lengths of shaped wood to hammer some sense into the skulls of these jumped-up, ever so entitled "students". Why the hell do they expect me to finance their so-called education? Why must I pay for them to spend 3 or 4 years boozing and drug-taking whilst they "study" such essential subjects as Celebrity Studies?! They are under the impression that University education is a "right". No way, it is a privilege that must be earned, hopefully via intellectual ability - something that these morons plainly lack. "What is your badge number?" one of the rabble shouts, we don't have badge numbers here in the UK, easy to see what he spends his down time doing - playing computer games and watching moronic US cop shows. I have zero sympathy with them, I may even enrol as a Special Constable so's I can belt a few of the idiots meself!
Numpt Attila you are thick. Education is a human right like freedom of speech and to take pics what was the cop hiding ? You support liars you are silly. Educate the masses otherwise they may end up like you.
I will try The idea of the public ‘funding’ higher education in tax is itself something of a myth – university graduates, through higher income tax contributions, are an incredibly high-paying investment. Statistics show the profit for funding a graduate, through social contributions and tax, average £56,000 over a life-time’s earnings. In addition there are benefits to society from funding education which cannot be quantified economically: better understanding of culture – ours and that of others – and of society. These benefits rival the enormous economic tax returns received from graduates, but they remain ignored by government, policy-makers and vice-chancellors if public goods are identified solely by wealth ‘created’.
. We see teenage girls being dragged by their hair and school children punched in the face. Police on horseback charge crowds sitting on Oxford Road by Whitworth Park. One man who questions the police’s actions is put in a choke hold, another who tries to film the proceedings has his mobile phone snatched from him and pocketed by a commanding officer. With this kind of leadership, the behaviour of the lower ranks is no surprise. Ultimately though, it’s an own goal. As one demonstrator shouts to them, “when your budget is cut and you lose your jobs, nobody is going to demonstrate for you.” Far from it. Hundreds of young people who came on the demonstration today will, having already no doubt lost their faith in the political class, now have lost their trust in the forces of ‘law and order’. It’s going to be an interesting year! This article was taken from a manchester paper that is appealing for camera footage
OK, I'll modify my argument. There may just be a case for funding those who wish to pursue useful courses, e.g. English, Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Law etc. But there is no reason whatsoever to fund the lumpen mass who wish to "study" such as Tourism, Media, Sports Centre Management et al.
By all means fund and nurture those with intellectual capability and ambition but it has to be said that amongst youth there is a sizeable number who see further education as a bandwagon to climb on, an extension of their social life, a place to go because their mates are there, they have no great intellectual depth, they just see themselves as "entitled" to it. They are not.
Basic (secondary) education is, of course, a right. It just seems a damned shame that its wasted on many, many of those who see themselves as "entitled."
The advertised end point for the demonstration was the Town Hall, but police had demanded a change of route at the last moment, and assembled a steel pen in Castlefield in which to herd the protestors. No wonder they have problems.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out. I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay. When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student. As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities. But who pays? Those on higher incomes pay more tax. They also buy more goods and pay VAT. So I suppose it might be thought that they are paying back for the education they received. But this makes the assumption that those with well paid jobs ALL went to University or college. This cannot be so. Some businesses are founded on sheer hard work, experience and taking risks. Some people rise to the top through their own creativity and acquired know-how. Some workers earn high wages in dangerous occupations. High salaries do not necessarily equate with University degrees. In fact I know a number of people with degrees who earn less than the average wage. Whereas in some areas of the country, high salaries seem to be given just to turn up at the office! But then, some people get even more through the benefit system. Nothing is fair, nothing is equal. Instead of shutting their ears to explanations, and go for a happy-clappy parade through the streets of towns (drawing those who thrive on making trouble) I would be more impressed if groups of students sat down and seriously debated what is best for future students (the present ones are not affected) and for the country as a whole. For too long, handouts have caused serious agitation with those who work hard and long to get what they have. No one wants the weak to suffer, but it seems to me that 'the weak' have grown in number in recent years. I have great admiration for those who make every effort to overcome disability — they deserve every support, including financial, they get. But we are talking here about Student fees. At a time when every department is having to make cuts, when some people have lost jobs and others taking less pay, when there is a crisis of elderly care looming, a serious discussion about Student fees is needed. If young adults and children are so easily carried along with the throng without seriously thinking about the issues, I wonder what sort of future their is for this country. I don't know what the answer is, but I rather think in a year's time when cuts really chop into services, it may be only too plain.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out. I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay. When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student. As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities. But who pays? Those on higher incomes pay more tax. They also buy more goods and pay VAT. So I suppose it might be thought that they are paying back for the education they received. But this makes the assumption that those with well paid jobs ALL went to University or college. This cannot be so. Some businesses are founded on sheer hard work, experience and taking risks. Some people rise to the top through their own creativity and acquired know-how. Some workers earn high wages in dangerous occupations. High salaries do not necessarily equate with University degrees. In fact I know a number of people with degrees who earn less than the average wage. Whereas in some areas of the country, high salaries seem to be given just to turn up at the office! But then, some people get even more through the benefit system. Nothing is fair, nothing is equal.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out. I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay. When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student. As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities.
1. The ability of the individual to influence the system of government and the rules that are imposed by it.
2. Whether in this particular case students are being subjected to a rough deal.
3. Whether all of us should be made to fund education for everyone that can make effective use of it.
Here it's helpful to define 'education' - and I would want to distinguish it from 'training' (which I believe is what goes on in most university lecture halls).
Any other facets to this argument?
4. Perhaps to what extent we should earn money for our country by 'exporting' education to people from other countries; for instance Imperial College is run mainly for the benefit of foreign students who pay high fees to get an excellent education.
12 comments:
What a let-down, I was quite looking forward to seeing the boys in blue using lengths of shaped wood to hammer some sense into the skulls of these jumped-up, ever so entitled "students". Why the hell do they expect me to finance their so-called education? Why must I pay for them to spend 3 or 4 years boozing and drug-taking whilst they "study" such essential subjects as Celebrity Studies?! They are under the impression that University education is a "right". No way, it is a privilege that must be earned, hopefully via intellectual ability - something that these morons plainly lack. "What is your badge number?" one of the rabble shouts, we don't have badge numbers here in the UK, easy to see what he spends his down time doing - playing computer games and watching moronic US cop shows. I have zero sympathy with them, I may even enrol as a Special Constable so's I can belt a few of the idiots meself!
Numpt Attila you are thick. Education is a human right like freedom of speech and to take pics what was the cop hiding ?
You support liars you are silly.
Educate the masses otherwise they may end up like you.
"You are thick" and "you are silly" are hardly very strong arguments.
Can't we come up with stronger reasoning than this?
I will try
The idea of the public ‘funding’ higher education in tax is itself something of a myth – university graduates, through higher income tax contributions, are an incredibly high-paying investment. Statistics show the profit for funding a graduate, through social contributions and tax, average £56,000 over a life-time’s earnings. In addition there are benefits to society from funding education which cannot be quantified economically: better understanding of culture – ours and that of others – and of society. These benefits rival the enormous economic tax returns received from graduates, but they remain ignored by government, policy-makers and vice-chancellors if public goods are identified solely by wealth ‘created’.
. We see teenage girls being dragged by their hair and school children punched in the face. Police on horseback charge crowds sitting on Oxford Road by Whitworth Park. One man who questions the police’s actions is put in a choke hold, another who tries to film the proceedings has his mobile phone snatched from him and pocketed by a commanding officer. With this kind of leadership, the behaviour of the lower ranks is no surprise. Ultimately though, it’s an own goal. As one demonstrator shouts to them, “when your budget is cut and you lose your jobs, nobody is going to demonstrate for you.” Far from it. Hundreds of young people who came on the demonstration today will, having already no doubt lost their faith in the political class, now have lost their trust in the forces of ‘law and order’. It’s going to be an interesting year!
This article was taken from a manchester paper that is appealing for camera footage
OK, I'll modify my argument. There may just be a case for funding those who wish to pursue useful courses, e.g. English, Engineering, Sciences, Medicine, Law etc. But there is no reason whatsoever to fund the lumpen mass who wish to "study" such as Tourism, Media, Sports Centre Management et al.
By all means fund and nurture those with intellectual capability and ambition but it has to be said that amongst youth there is a sizeable number who see further education as a bandwagon to climb on, an extension of their social life, a place to go because their mates are there, they have no great intellectual depth, they just see themselves as "entitled" to it. They are not.
Basic (secondary) education is, of course, a right. It just seems a damned shame that its wasted on many, many of those who see themselves as "entitled."
The advertised end point for the demonstration was the Town Hall, but police had demanded a change of route at the last moment, and assembled a steel pen in Castlefield in which to herd the protestors. No wonder they have problems.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out.
I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay.
When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student.
As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities.
But who pays? Those on higher incomes pay more tax. They also buy more goods and pay VAT. So I suppose it might be thought that they are paying back for the education they received. But this makes the assumption that those with well paid jobs ALL went to University or college. This cannot be so. Some businesses are founded on sheer hard work, experience and taking risks. Some people rise to the top through their own creativity and acquired know-how. Some workers earn high wages in dangerous occupations. High salaries do not necessarily equate with University degrees. In fact I know a number of people with degrees who earn less than the average wage. Whereas in some areas of the country, high salaries seem to be given just to turn up at the office! But then, some people get even more through the benefit system.
Nothing is fair, nothing is equal.
Instead of shutting their ears to explanations, and go for a happy-clappy parade through the streets of towns (drawing those who thrive on making trouble) I would be more impressed if groups of students sat down and seriously debated what is best for future students (the present ones are not affected) and for the country as a whole.
For too long, handouts have caused serious agitation with those who work hard and long to get what they have. No one wants the weak to suffer, but it seems to me that 'the weak' have grown in number in recent years. I have great admiration for those who make every effort to overcome disability — they deserve every support, including financial, they get.
But we are talking here about Student fees.
At a time when every department is having to make cuts, when some people have lost jobs and others taking less pay, when there is a crisis of elderly care looming, a serious discussion about Student fees is needed. If young adults and children are so easily carried along with the throng without seriously thinking about the issues, I wonder what sort of future their is for this country.
I don't know what the answer is, but I rather think in a year's time when cuts really chop into services, it may be only too plain.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out.
I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay.
When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student.
As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities.
But who pays? Those on higher incomes pay more tax. They also buy more goods and pay VAT. So I suppose it might be thought that they are paying back for the education they received. But this makes the assumption that those with well paid jobs ALL went to University or college. This cannot be so. Some businesses are founded on sheer hard work, experience and taking risks. Some people rise to the top through their own creativity and acquired know-how. Some workers earn high wages in dangerous occupations. High salaries do not necessarily equate with University degrees. In fact I know a number of people with degrees who earn less than the average wage. Whereas in some areas of the country, high salaries seem to be given just to turn up at the office! But then, some people get even more through the benefit system.
Nothing is fair, nothing is equal.
Unfortunately, it seems that many of the students have little knowledge of what is being proposed. Many of them will actually be better off. The rest don't pay a penny until they have a good income coming in. It would seem that nothing will be coming in for a number of years. If the present government wanted to be popular it could easily have said no fees. And then leave it until the next lot in to sort it out.
I don't like the idea of tuition fees. But with so many students, compared with years gone by, someone has to pay.
When I was young very few working class people got to University. My brothers and sisters left work at 14. My brother who managed to get an apprenticeship with Rolls Royce (and went to evening classes0, made it to University through sheer hard work and guts. Latin was mandatory. I was lucky to get to a secondary art school until 15. But I had to leave the College of Art some months later (when my father became incapacitated and hardly any money coming in) so as to earn a living. Hardly any benefits those days. Many people worked and studied at night classes and got their qualifications that way. I worked my way up. All my qualifications have been gained as a mature student.
As more youngsters are encouraged to go on to University it is obvious that costs must rise. There are many Universities and colleges now. Just about anyone can get in. This is good if it improves the lot of each student. And improves the country's work and trading opportunities.
There are lots of issues here.
Here's my attempt to separate them:
1. The ability of the individual to influence the system of government and the rules that are imposed by it.
2. Whether in this particular case students are being subjected to a rough deal.
3. Whether all of us should be made to fund education for everyone that can make effective use of it.
Here it's helpful to define 'education' - and I would want to distinguish it from 'training' (which I believe is what goes on in most university lecture halls).
Any other facets to this argument?
4. Perhaps to what extent we should earn money for our country by 'exporting' education to people from other countries; for instance Imperial College is run mainly for the benefit of foreign students who pay high fees to get an excellent education.
Please see my subsequent postings
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